Once Saved Always Saved? Am I Even Forgiven?
Hebrews 8:12
“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." NIV
Hebrews 10:26, 27
NIV “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.”
NLT 26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.
THE MESSAGE 26-27, 31 If we give up and turn our backs on all we've learned, all we've been given, all the truth we now know, we repudiate Christ's sacrifice and are left on our own to face the Judgment—and a mighty fierce judgment it will be!...God has warned us that he'll hold us to account and make us pay. He was quite explicit: "Vengeance is mine, and I won't overlook a thing" and "God will judge his people." Nobody's getting by with anything, believe me.
Every time we sin, we turn our backs on Christ and the sacrifice he made for us. All of us sin, all of the time. So is there really no hope for any of us?
And then there's Hebrews 9 stuff. Facing judgment and giving an account. Why?...if our sins are "remembered no more" and we are justified by grace, in faith, and by and in Christ? I just don't get all the rehashing of the whole mess of sin that is forgiven.
If we can never be good enough or do enough good, and I believe there is no to-do list of obligations to be met in order to be saved, then maybe we can never understand enough either. We walk by faith and not by sight. There is no humanly-understood rhyme or reason except for believing, trusting, and having faith.
To jDR: Maybe I really was never saved. Maybe I’m not.
posted by Angie at 12:52 PM
6 Comments:
If my memory serves me correctly, the book of Hebrews was written for the newly converted Jewish Christians that were being subjected to various types of persecution for their faith by
the traditional Jews. Some of the converts were questioning their new-found faith and felt pressure to go back to Judism.
Because the converts knew the Old Testament and the God of the Old Testament, the author (?Paul?) worte to them in a manner that was familiar to them in order to rest their worries and keep their Christian faith. The God of old was a vengeful, angry God because of the shinanigans that the Jews of old pulled. God told and told and told them what to do and yet they kept on repeating the same sins. They just wore out God's patience. So God had to be a "no more Mr. Nice Guy" and had to ride herd over them (think sheep and goats).
Anyway, Jesus had come to Earth and died for all mankind, but the Jews, whether they had converted to Christianity or remained with the old ways, still had the mindset that God was always mad at them. So the Author of the book of Hebrews wrote to them (those with a Jewish upbringing) in a manner that they could comprehend--God is quick to anger (think 40 years in the desert)and the Jews had better remember that in order to behave themselves---or else!
Sooooo, the reader of the scriptures has to keep in mind of who the author was (his personality style) and who the audience was that the writings went to (what were they up to or against).
Therefore, I believe that the Heavenly Father that I know and love has returned to his "Mr Nice Guy" ways since his beloved first born son was sent here to Earth and died for all of mankind (believers and non-believers). I believe that since we Christians of today have not had to see that mad God of olden days and that the Jews of old had to see, the Heavenly Father that we now know is kind, gracious, and forgiving.
The only way I can deal with much of my faith is to look at this like this: I am a weak human with 3 children. I love my children like nothing else. (And I am told that grandparents know a love beyond love!) I, as a weak and sinful human, have a love that knows no bounds (even my dying for my kids' sake is not too much for me to do for them) If I have that kind of love as a sinner for sinful children, then I can only imagine the kind of love my Heavenly Father has for me---in all his perfectness, knowing, and love. He loves me like I can only truly know when I get back to him in Heaven.
As a friend who did not realize the power of his words told me once, "Jesus understands."
I have to believe that. And I thank my friend for his kind guiding words.
Thank you for letting me get that out and share one humble yet feisty opinion!
DiAn
I think that the very fact that you are worried says something about your salvation being secured.
Here's something that was helpful to me the other day and helps keep me from despair (which it sounds like you are struggling with):
Religion says, if I obey, God will love me. Gospel says, because God loves me, I can obey.
Religion has good people & bad people. Gospel has only repentant and unrepentant people.
Religion values a birth family. Gospel values a new birth.
Religion depends on what I do. Gospel depends on what Jesus has done.
Religion claims that sanctification justifies me. Gospel claims that justification enables sanctification.
Religion has the goal to get from God. Gospel has the goal to get God.
Religion sees hardships as punishment for sin. Gospel sees hardship as sanctified affliction.
Religion is about me. Gospel is about Jesus.
Religion believes appearing as a good person is the key. Gospel believes that being honest is the key.
Religion has an uncertainty of standing before God. Gospel has certainty based upon Jesus' work.
Religion sees Jesus as the means. Gospel sees Jesus as the end.
Religion ends in pride or despair. Gospel ends in humble joy.
Via Acts 29.
Also, I don't think is (Old Testament) Angry God vs. (NT) Nice-Guy God. He's the same. Go back and read how patient God was with the folks in the OT. His wrath in the NT is also on display.
Y'all are too smart for me. But I am grateful for your thoughts.
Honestly, I don't really feel worried. Just my human need to know. If I don't KNOW, then maybe that says something about the security of my salvation.
It seems like when it's just me, one on one with God, I believe everything I profess about KNOWING Him and Him KNOWING me and I feel that as much as I may struggle, He is My God. And because I know that Jesus has paid the price for me and I acknowledge that and always come back to that, how could I ever believe that I am not savd?
BUT...even saying that brings me immediately to say: "How can I say that?! WHO AM I to feel so secure??!!" I just come back to "I don't know. I just have to run the race, fight the fight, and have faith." There's nothing I can DO. But that just seems like a cop-out.
I can't worry about it. I have to continue to climb the mountain and pray I make it to the top.
"Sanctified affliction" Hmm, that's something I need to think about.
I absolutely believe that God has shown his "pareneting styles" in both Testaments.
I just think that the book of Hebrews is a letter to a group of people who made a radical change of faith in the land of "God's chosen ones" just after the death of Christ, who was rejected by "God's chosen people". The writer of Hebrews was doing his best to relate to the newly concerted to help them keep their new found faith.
Also, most of God's ander is talked about by John in the book of Revelations. Revelations was a dream or several dreams that John had while on the Isle of Isthmus in exile. His dreams were inspired by God, but were phophetic in nature.
I enjoy this Biblical bantering.
DiAn
DiAn, I don't disagree with your take on the purpose of the writer of Hebrews. I do think that it is a mistake to think of God as OT vs. NT becaue the whole story of the Bible is redemption and God pursuing the fallen man and bringing us back to Him.
As for Revelation, well ....
That one we may never understand completely.
Amen...
and Amen...
DiAn
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